Comments on Nick's Twins Blog: Sorting Through the Rays Trade

Anonymous, I share your concerns, which is why I'm...

2007-11-29T21:59:22.171-06:00

Anonymous, I share your concerns, which is why I'm a little wary of this trade. Don't sleep on Delmon though, he can really become a very, very good player.

I'm not thrilled about this deal, but maybe it's b...

2007-11-29T20:57:40.287-06:00

I'm not thrilled about this deal, but maybe it's because of that thrown bat episode, that's a huge red flag. I don't mind dealing Garza but it looks like the Twins have added a hole instead of filling one. Getting a corner OF who can hit is not nearly as difficult as getting a slick fielding SS who can hit. Of course, if Young develops into a monster bat then all will be forgotten, but I'm not sure that the chances of that happening are that much greater than Garza becoming a very good #2 SP. What's worth more, a big corner OF bat or a very good #2 SP? Seems to me the Twins added too much on top of Garza to get the potentially big corner OF bat.

What really bothers me most about the deal was how little the Twins appear to value Bartlett - I hope he gets respect in Tampa and continues making the highlight reel plays. The Twins were also pretty quick to "throw in" another big prospect in place of Rincon, that is a bit disconcerting with the Santana/Nathan trades looming. I hope Bill Smith is not going to get schooled by smart GM's in the next month.

I think you have a little too much Travis Bowyer s...

2007-11-29T14:28:43.712-06:00

I think you have a little too much Travis Bowyer syndrome with morlan. Has been excellent, yes.

Make no mistake, the Twins can replace Graza from within (or come very close). Young could replace Hunter's bat.

I also agree that this could portend either a move of Nathan or Santana for a shortstop at least as good as Bartlett. Worst case is that it gives Gardy another chance to feature Nick Punto for over 500 at bats.

Do not agree that this trade hinges on Morlan or Harris. It hinges on Young and only Young being a good player and good citizen.

As for the trade - it was a good deal for both tea...

2007-11-29T11:32:19.321-06:00

As for the trade - it was a good deal for both teams. The Twins get a slugger and two other players; the Rays get a pitcher and SS and minor-leaguer.
I see Young fitting very nicely in the Twins’ lineup. But it does create some questions about CF and IF. I think the Twins are still looking for their CF and 3rd baseman, but they now have lots of infield options, with Casilla, Harris, Buscher and even Punto. And they’re not done trading yet. I could see them getting a great 2B, or 3B and slide Harris into either post, and put Casilla at SS. If they can get either a great 3B, SS or 2B AND a good CF AND an established veteran SP for Santana, we will be set.
One thing that is understated in these transactions is the leadership quotent. Every team needs established team leaders - veterans - for pitching, offense and defense.
Hunter’s role as a team leader will be missed far more than his role as a player. True, they pay him as a player, but he’s also a leader.
What the Twins received in this play were two players with basically a year each in the majors. They gave up one SS who was turning into a team leader (if not on the field) and who likely will be looked to as a team leader in Tampa Bay.
If the Twins trade Santana, the same is true. The Twins have very capable young pitchers on this staff, but with Silva gone, they need a veteran SP - one who can lead behind the scenes. Liriano, Bonser, Baker and Slowey all have less than two full years of ML experience. These are very good SP, but are not the behind-the-scenes leader types. We need someone like that - either Santana, or someone else who can provide the leadership these guys will need.
Without it, the Twins will not make the playoffs in 08.
This leader does not have to be the caliber pitcher of Santana (it would be nice) but just someone who can provide the young SPs with experience and leadership.
I think Cuddyer fills that bill in the outfield (unless we get an established CF). Morneau helps in the IF. and Mauer and Redmond are already there at C. The bullpen also has capable leaders. But if we trade Santana, we will need to either get an established veteran pitcher, or will need to sign one.

If the Twins make that trade with the Red Sox, the...

2007-11-29T10:02:57.805-06:00

If the Twins make that trade with the Red Sox, then I think they need to make a few more moves to make it a very successful offseason. If they follow the trade by signing Mark Loretta to help the infield and play third, they should then use the money freed up to extend Nathan and Morneau and possibly Cuddyer as well as looking at signing veteran pitching. A good option would be a stop-gap like Bartalo Colon.

With that, having let the trade settle in, it is a good argument that Garza-for-Young wouldn't have happened, so it may not be a quality analysis to try and separate the trade into three individual trades. A Pridie-Morlan trade isn't a good trade, but we don't know the details. The jump from trading Rincon to trading Morlan is confusing, but we don't know the details. If it is ultimately what it took to get Young, it may well be worth it.

Well time will tell as we've all admitted, but thi...

2007-11-29T09:37:56.833-06:00

Well time will tell as we've all admitted, but this organization has GOT to stop gripping these "prospects" by the balls like they've got gold bullion and hanging on until they turn into fool's gold. Yes, I know, the Twins have to develop their own talent. Yes, Morlan may well be a very fine reliever. BUT you don't get Delmon Young for Matt Garza. It just doesn't happen. Pridie, I don't really understand in that you have to figure they're going to add a CF (either Cabrera, Crisp, or Ellsbury, or even Gomez from the Mets). I think Harris plugs in at 2b as the Twins won't tolerate his defense at SS. So, you still have holes in CF, SS, 3B, but you have admirably plugged DH with Kubel as Young and he form the DH/LF combo. The Santana deal may well be for Crisp, Lowrie (the big impact SS prospect), Lester, and Masterson(SP a couple years away). I'm betting the Twins are trying to force Ellsbury out of the Sox but I'm betting this one is close. If the Yankees don't step up with Hughes, Cabrera, and either Jackson or Tabata, the Sox will win--we get a STUD shortstop, plus a passable CF, and a mid range SP. All of a sudden I feel weak in SP, but the kids are gonna have to step up if not in 08, by 09 or 10 (you listening, Slowey, Bonser, Baker, Perkins, Tyler Robertson?, Liriano??). It's the first shoe to drop. Let's see how it all configures. If the Boston or NYY deal goes down, then we ship Nathan, probably for a third baseman, if its there. So many moving parts....but bottom line, they got a big impact bat (potentially), and I much prefer this guy to Jason Bay. If Morlan really is the reason everyone suddenly soured on this deal, I think that's a risk I can live with.

i saw a "report" listed today about the trade befo...

2007-11-29T02:20:27.036-06:00

i saw a "report" listed today about the trade before I went to work and now that I've returned home, it's a done deal. I gotta say that when i first learned of it, i was pretty excited. i hate to lose Garza, but we've got so much pitching. The Idea of a young outfielder who can hit and play defense is exciting. I don't care about his past, because he won't get away with it here.

Trading Bartlett was a bit of surprise, but I was never sure about him. Led the Majors in errors this year, was terrible at the plate until the last 1/3 of the season.

The only thing that changed things for me in this trade came from this blog. I don't know anything about Morlan, but from your words, i wince a little bit when you say the Twins may have given up too much value. Hell yeah, I would have packed Rincoln's bags for him, but alas he's still a Twin.

I agree with Patrick about Garza and his future. Not saying he won't blossom into a good pitcher, but all I heard about him in his time with the Twins is his reliance on the fastball and his refusal to mix his pitches. He's got good stuff, but he needs to learn how to pitch. No knock on the guy, because I liked watching him pitch.

I'm happy the Twins made a move that wasn't dealing away our best players for pennies on the dollar and instead got a good, young outfielder who was considered one of the best prospects in the game a few years ago. Probably not playing centerfield, but I'd take Young rather than overpay Torri.

In my opinion, Young is much more likely to be a b...

2007-11-29T00:52:27.253-06:00

In my opinion, Young is much more likely to be a big star than Garza is, and it is at best a 50-50 chance that Morlan will become a good major leaguer. Bartlett for Harris is a wash. I think it was an even trade, and will only be bad on the unlikely chance that Morlan becomes a big star, as Young is likely to be significantly better for a long time than Garza, who has his own attitude problems and has demonstrated much less ability in the major leagues to be a high impact player.